Exploring the Impact of AI on Daily Life: Takeaways from CapTech's Consumer Study

In this episode, CapTech Principal, Vinnie Schoenfelder is joined by CX Manager, Carrie Ryan and Systems Integration Director Kevin Vaughan to discuss the increasing expectations consumers have around innovation and how they are more accepting of AI in their daily lives. 

Tune in to hear more about:  

• How to strike the balance between the user experience and product usability vs. being innovative for innovation's sake. 
• Compared to last year, consumers are more willing to share data because they're aware of the benefits AI provides for personalization, efficiency, and more.  
• The key to integrating AI into the daily lives of consumers is to understand their customers and their needs.  
• If your company’s innovation cycle is too slow to release, companies that are leaning heavily into AI will surpass you quickly.  

Transcript

Vinnie 

Hello and welcome back to CapTech Trends. I'm your host, Vinnie Schoenfelder, and today we're going to be talking about our consumer survey, specifically as it relates to innovation and AI. With me, I have Carrie Ryan, a manager in our CX group out of Denver, and Kevin Vaughn from our systems integration group out of Charlotte. Carrie, Kevin, welcome. 

Kevin 

Thank you. 

Carrie 

Thank you. 

Vinnie 

Hey, Carrie, why don't you kick us off with I guess a little bit of history and overview of this survey, it's intent and maybe just some high level findings from this year, and then we'll get into what that means from an innovation and AI perspective. 

Carrie 

Sure. Yeah, so every year in the fall of each year, our CX practice conducts, excuse me, a consumer insight study. And really the idea is that we try to understand consumer trends as it relates to the time of year. We've done studies in the past related to consumer spending during COVID and things like that. This year it was a little bit more related to AI since AI was everywhere in the news and it was introduced to consumers in the spring of last year from a gen AI perspective, so it was becoming a more household name, so we wanted to understand more about how consumers felt about that. We also touched on a number of different topics related to conversational technology, data privacy and security as well as product and innovation. 

Just broadly speaking, we saw themes around consumers increasing expectations around innovation, the growing kind of acceptance and integration of AI into people's daily lives. And really we also saw themes around that there needs to be a balance between the user experience and the usability of products versus just being innovative for innovation's sake. And then kind of a widespread adoption of conversational technologies like chatbots and things like that. And then lastly, we saw some themes around kind of the nuanced view of data privacy and data security and how consumers feel about that. 

Vinnie 

Great. Thank you. Kevin. I guess by way of introducing the topic, I think most people listening to this podcast have a definition in their mind of what AI is. Can you maybe go one level deeper in terms of how that relates to our lives as consumers throughout our typical day, typical week? 

Kevin 

Sure. I think that when we look at the experiences that are coming out that are really leveraging AI at this point, they're more transparent outside of the chatbot conversational interface types of things, right? We've seen AI for a while think Netflix recommendations, Amazon product recommendations, a lot of the things that you see, GPS rerouting. So a lot of the features that make our lives easier are powered by traditional AI, traditional machine learning, and now we're seeing an emergence of generative AI that provides us things that are much more human-like in their conversation and their outputs and much more personalizable, contextualizable against the user itself. 

Vinnie  

So there's this concept I think first introduced in robotics years ago called the uncanny valley, where the closer you get to reality, the creepier it gets. So like R2-D2 is cute, but when you get CGI faces that are close to human but the eyes are wrong, that's creepy. Have we crossed that gap yet, Kevin, where people are weirded out by this or has it gotten so good that we're sort of forgetting that it's artificial? 

Kevin 

I think that right now it's a yes, there's a gamut of that. And it really depends on your technical literacy and your exposure to things like Chat GPT, which a lot of people have, but also some of the transparency, right? If you make a phone call to a customer service, you may be talking to a voice that is generated and you don't know that as it's going through because it sounds a lot better than what traditional IVR setups had. I think that when you look at things like your assistants that sit inside of GitHub Copilot, that helps developers write code more effectively, more efficiently. There gets to be a danger there with the uncanny valley where you get really comfortable with that code being good or at least good enough, and then you stop looking. So that's going to obviously be super problematic in that case. 

I think that a lot of people also are embracing things like personal therapists, virtual personal therapists. And with that type of experience, they're really seeking to suspend their disbelief, right? They want that human interaction, but they don't want the burden of having to share their inner selves with an actual human that they feel like will judge them. So that disconnect from the human aspect is helpful in that regard. 

Vinnie 

Well, that comes down to a lot of trust too, right? And Carrie, this is one of the things I wanted to chat with you about too, where people say they value their privacy, they value their data, AI is scary, and yet you put a convincing chat bot in front of them and they're sharing their secrets that they feel uncomfortable sharing with a human, right? So help me understand that a bit, that gap between people saying, "I don't want to share my data." And then they turn around and the second there's value, they're completely opening up. 

Carrie 

There's certainly a stronger willingness to share data than there used to be, and to your point, because they're getting benefits from that, right? But you have to look at the type of data that they're sharing. More people are willing to share personal data like shopping history and stuff like that. But when you ask them about, "Are you willing to share more sensitive data, like your financial records?" That's when they're like, "I don't know. That gives me pause." I think it's more nuanced than just saying data in general. There's a certain degree to which the type of data they're willing to share actually is. But yes, people are more willing to share than they used to be because they're now getting those perks and those, whether it's personalized recommendations or loyalty programs or things like that, they're certainly more willing to share that. It is very interesting because I think the whole term and the whole recognition of data security being at top of consumer's minds is much more than it used to be, but the benefits have seemingly outweighed the cost when it comes to the type of data that they're sharing. 

Kevin 

So is that kind of like a currency then at that point? It went from I can't get anything out of my data to now actually my actions are worth something. 

Carrie 

Right. Well, and that's why we're seeing similarly to AI in general, people are getting benefits, right? They're starting to see that it's improving their daily life. And when we ask what type of reason would they be willing to use AI, it's always, "Make my life easier, improve efficiency, improve daily tasks, help me plan a trip.. It's those things that are tedious that they want those benefits from AI that they're seeing. And so they're much more willing to interact with AI as we were talking about earlier, or share that type of data to get those benefits. 

Vinnie 

I think it's also an awareness quotient here, both being very aware and being totally unaware. So I'll give you two examples you guys can respond to. Augmented reality or virtual reality, you know you're using the technology. You've probably even pushed a button to save you in my space or try this on or whatever. It's very explicit. But to your example, Kevin, using AI for rerouting, using AI in an EV to auto brake because two cars ahead is doing something different. I don't even think people are aware at that time that it didn't hit an AI button, they didn't hit safe drive button, it's integrated into the technology. So it's interesting to me that there are people who maybe have fear, uncertainty and doubt, but they're totally unaware that the products they're using already have a lot of this technology built in versus something so obvious as AR and VR. 

Carrie 

And that's actually in our previous study that we did, we actually did... And I know we actually have a previous podcast that you and I did about that, but we did a previous study very specific about AI, it was probably 20 to 25 questions asking people about AI in general and then also generative AI. And one of our questions up front was, "Are you familiar with AI? Have you used it? And what types of applications have you used it for?" And it was very interesting because we started to see a nuance between people saying, Yes, I'm familiar with it. No, I haven't used it." But then they would answer questions about using Spotify or Amazon or Netflix, and it's like, "Well, that-" 

Vinnie 

You are. Yeah. 

Carrie 

"... actually, yeah, you're using AI and you just had no idea." Because it's obviously been around for much longer than people realize. And to your point, they don't even realize that they have been interacting with it because it wasn't out there. It wasn't something that people were interacting with, like Gen AI, for example, and they know they're interacting with AI. 

Vinnie 

How does that kind of layer over top of a company's responsibility to provide transparency? No one told us we were using AI for rerouting, right? You aren't alerted in an EV that AI is being used for your car. But then if we use your data for something and we don't tell you people get mad. So where does that responsibility stop and start for transparency? 

Kevin 

Well, that's definitely a push versus pull, right? Am I getting the value directly out? Do I need to know if AI is being used to do that? Probably depends a lot on the type of decision. If I'm using AI to identify my medical conditions, I would like to know that there was not a human involved. I might trust it more just because there wasn't a human involved. But I'd really like to understand that versus am I getting the right movie recommendation? Does it matter to me really whether AI was involved in that or not? Definitely much less so in the moment of my car breaking because I've got this traffic up ahead. I don't want to spend the time wondering if AI was generating that or not. I need that action now. And so the responsiveness of that kind of, I think buys you some amount of, it doesn't matter how we're making this kind of decision. 

I think a lot of people thought that their Teslas were using a lot more AI than they are now prior to the full self-driving release. And so now it's significantly more when it's got no programmatic logic in there of what to do, and it's purely just a neural network end to end making those driving decisions. That's a lot different scenario, but I think then you're pushing the update button, it's warning you, it's saying, "This is getting ready to happen." And you've got to sort of qualify your way into even being able to do that. 

Vinnie 

Right? So Carrie, one of the big things I took from the survey results that you published, I've seen quite a bit over the years that consumers expectations drive innovation. I think that's always been true. The example, I might've said it earlier, but people upgrade their cars because the infotainment system isn't keeping up with their tablet or phone, right? Because they see that as aging out before the mechanics of the car actually age out. So their expectations of that interface are driving even very large purchases. But that sort of ebbs and flows. When new technology comes out, when the PalmPilot first came out, low adoption compared to where we are with mobile phones now, right? Same thing with AI, these big tech innovations and people don't know how it necessarily benefits them and there's a little bit of fear, uncertainty and doubt, then they see the value and then they start driving innovation. Where are we in that life cycle do you believe, given the results of the survey? 

Carrie 

Yeah, that's a really good question. It is very interesting, because to your point, consumers are only willing to adopt that innovation when they do start to see the benefit from them and how it improves their daily life. Like we're seeing with AI right now, right? They start to kind of try it out and then they're a little bit on the fence because of maybe what they've heard in the media or whatever the case may be. But then they try it and they're like, "Oh, this is great. I can generate all the content I need very easily and much more quickly and efficiently than I had previously." And then it's a part of their daily life and they couldn't live without it. It is interesting when we talk about innovation in general, the speed of innovation now is so much quicker than it used to be that consumers are now expecting it so much more than they used to. 

The level that you have to get to, the level of innovation that you have to get to appease. A consumer I feel like is so much higher, the bar is so much higher. As I was saying earlier, VR for instance, I don't know that we're quite there yet with VR. I don't know that people have quite clung onto that because they're not seeing the benefit of improving their daily life. It's a cool thing, it's flashy, it's fun. It's expensive, which could also be a barrier, but what is it that's improving their daily life? And so I think it always comes back to that. 

Vinnie  

Yeah. And there's also the barriers. You mentioned cost is one barrier. There's a physical barrier, I've got to put something on. I've always got my phone, if I want to buy something from Amazon, it's two clicks. Why would I strap on a computer to my face and re-navigate to something? There better be a huge added value to that to make me take those extra steps. So Kevin, with that, let's talk about what companies are trying to do to address this increased demand from consumers. What I'm interested in asking you is about expectations versus reality. How mature are organizations now in understanding what is possible versus what's achievable in the immediate term? 

Kevin 

I think it depends on how much money you've been spending over the past year. So two years ago, there were some studies where people were dipping their toes in the water that had heard about earlier versions like GPT-3, and they were spending about $50,000 on research efforts. And now the Fortune 500, there's a study recently came out that said that the average spend on AI research, training, development, upskilling was $18 million across Fortune 500 companies. So when you look at the companies that are investing heavily and bringing in consultancies that have been focusing on training up their folks to be able to represent the interest for the clients, they're doing pretty well for where the industry as a whole is. It's still so nascent. We don't know what good and great interfaces look like. 

I think about this moment in time compared to '98, '97. Sure, the Internet's active, but people were still posting in newspapers articles about, "Oh, the Internet's dead. Millennials have given this up. It's a waste of their time." Obviously that did not play out that way, but it took some really valuable use cases or really valuable applications that were valuable let's say to that audience, not necessarily society at large, but something that was really that draw and that attraction for them and then they started using it, right? And then people figured out, "Oh, I actually should have payment processing where if I hit submit twice, I don't actually submit two different payments." So you have to sit there and watch some of the technology find its place in order to really give users what they want in terms of convenience and reduced friction in their experiences. 

But this is very early, so I imagine a year from now we're going to see interactions with AI that are dramatically different than what we do right now. That's going to be a factor of us having figured out what experiences are good or not, right? And the technology is just becoming exponentially better at very, very fast rates. So if you're thinking I'm an innovative company, but your innovation cycle is six months to get a release out, that's not going to do. You're going to be able to be supplanted very quickly by these companies that are leaning in heavily to AI because it's a compound effect. If I'm using AI, I can be more efficient now that I'm efficient, I can be more efficient. And I'm just going to get such a head start over another company's innovation cycle in terms of figuring out what's working or not that it's just going to change the game dramatically on speed. 

Vinnie 

Yeah, that's a whole separate... I think we probably talked about this in previous podcasts, but a company's internal use of AI to drive development speed, DevOps speed, whatever else is as important as the AI that's being delivered to the consumer, right? Because You have to have it on both sides. 

Kevin 

Sure. If you're using it all day long and on your personal side you know what the benefits are that it could bring, and then you go to your 9:00 to 5:00 where you spend the majority of your time and you're feeling like there's a ball tied to your ankle, you're going to force that change internally, which is what we're seeing. 

Vinnie 

So Carrie, going back to the survey, consumers driving innovation. Let's get one level deeper in specificity. What are consumers expecting? 

Carrie 

Well, a couple different things, I would say. They want to see innovation, but they don't want that at the expense of usability. The user experience still has to be there. I was actually thinking about this the other day because I was on my phone on a site and I was looking at, I don't know if you've seen this, I'm sure you have, the sort of AR glasses that you put on that project like 120 inch monitor. And I was like, wow, if you're on a plane, that would be cool. What a great idea. But I was on this website and I was just scrolling and scrolling and scrolling and scrolling and scrolling, and I couldn't actually get any information about this thing and it was driving me crazy and I work in technology. For an average consumer, they're going to leave the site. I did leave the site because I was so frustrated, my thumb was getting tired. There has to be a balance between innovation and usability. Consumers still want that seamless checkout experience, for example. 

Vinnie 

Yeah, responding to what you said in the survey, I was reading things like, which ring true with me, "I will go to a restaurant or not go to a restaurant." Not the only decision, but if it impacts my decision as to whether or not I can just QR code my way out and not have to wait to pay. Same thing with the grocery store, if I can go through and I can just self-checkout or if I can bypass a kiosk in a hotel and go straight to the room and use my phone as the key. There's these streamlining things. It's interesting and this is where I think AR and VR kind of suffer. I think these technologies we're talking about really succeed when they add personalization, like the right content at the right time and the right place with convenience, and you start to forget that the technology is even there. So it is a weird thing. You want to let people know that you're cutting edge and you're using AI and you're using all these latest technologies, but the best experiences is when you don't even realize it's happening. 

Carrie 

Agreed, totally agree. When it improves my life on a daily basis, that's when I use it. I do think though, and this kind of circles back to our data conversation, and I know it's very nuanced because what we were talking about earlier in terms of your car, your GPS, your Netflix recommendations. Do people really care that that's backed by AI or machine learning? Probably not. But when it comes to sharing more data, they want companies to be transparent with that information and to improve their engagement with that company. Companies do need to step up and say, "We're actually using AI for this reason." And I do think that consumers are expecting that and they want it. They want companies to be more transparent when it comes to that, and that would probably improve trust. That would probably improve brand loyalty if consumers really had that level of communication from companies versus hiding it in the fine print or going the way of the unsubscribe dark pattern. That drives me crazy. So I do think consumers want that as well. [foreign language 00:21:51 

Kevin 

I wonder how that's going to play out with the context of smaller companies being more nimble ready to form right around this single generative AI idea or concept. They build this up, but they're a small company. They lack the maturity. They lack even the regulations around some of the data privacy concerns, in terms of compliance, etc. A lot of the AI tools are, "Cool, I'm going to take all of your data." Now the things from the big cloud providers, they're much more, "Hey, no, we're being safe and all of this stuff." But all of these consumers app by and large are using, are collecting your data. 

Vinnie 

That horse has left the barn, so it's out there. So Kevin, I wanted to go into that a bit from the standpoint, is there any downsides to this? I'm looking at the survey results now and one of the findings is 59% feel that AI can help them make a better decision. 56%, evaluate choices. What concerns me, and I'd like your insight on this, Kevin, is how does that not become an echo chamber or myopic or reducing my options where AI is feeding me hyper personalization at the expense of variety and surprise and delight for things maybe I hadn't thought of or would have liked. 

Kevin 

Personalization has been something since the ancient civilizations, right? I think it looks different every time we go through a big wave. But every clothing from once he reached a certain tier of class was custom-made for somebody, right? There was a tailor that was stitching all of those things together. And we start being able to produce in bulk and now everybody's wearing Levi's, right? That's just kind of what happened in the course of time, but everybody's not wearing Levi's anymore. They figured out like, "Oh, that's not really useful for a lot of scenarios." So I think that you'll certainly see that in some way in the same way that we've seen the echo chambers form in social media. I don't think that it's a never-ending kind of thing, right? Once you become aware of some of those challenges, you start to have your own personal education and you could do some of your own outreach. Some people are just going to close out, and that's just going to be the nature of change at this moment. 

Carrie 

I think it's a really, really interesting topic. And it might come back to just the transparency that it's even happening at all. I know for me, I use a smart news app, for instance, and the more I click on a certain topic, the more topics I get that are related to that. But I know that's what's happening. And I also click on certain topics that I'm interested in, so then it generates more topics that are similar and that could be that that's exactly what people want. I do think though, that there's a level of that to where it's like we need to let people know that that's what's happening and maybe they can opt in or not to that. And we're seeing this with politics and all of that kind of thing, people are getting very narrow-minded on one topic or- 

Vinnie 

Tribal. 

Carrie 

Yeah, exactly. And I do think there's probably an opportunity to increase awareness around that and like I said, maybe an opt-in or opt-out potentially or something like that. Because I do think that the more that we see that probably a little bit more dangerous it could potentially be. 

Vinnie 

Well, right. If you had a six-year-old and you said, "Whatever you like to eat, I'm going to give you more of." You're not going to create a healthy adult, right? And so what's the responsibility of the parent to say, "Oh, I understand what you like. I'll find some healthy things that I think can approximate that are going to be better for you." So I guess that comes down to an ethical question. Is it the responsibility of these companies to think like that and try not to just give ice cream over and over again? Or should they not care and just give the consumers what they want? 

Carrie 

Consumers want that. So I think there's a push and a pull there too, because that's what consumers want, they want that transparency. I think they'd be more willing to interact with a company if they felt like a company was handling that or being transparent about that. 

Vinnie 

Yeah. So let me ask you that question to you then, Kevin, because people talk about data privacy and security, and then we've talked about how maybe that goes down a bit when you're using your phone and you're getting high value out of it. But it's all perception, we don't really know who's being good stewards of our data or not, it's who we choose to believe. 

Kevin 

And even the best of stewards have leaks and systems. I forget who it was just this past week, Ticketmaster. They had this major data breach that's happening, they don't even understand the scope of it yet. But just kind of think, okay, well Live Nation. We see in the news, thanks T-Swift, that basically all ticketing goes through them for all of major events. The scale of that data breach could be astronomical compared to anything else. Did I feel like Ticketmaster was good steward of my data to begin with? Not like an Apple that's always constantly in my face about how it's all on device and everything. They're very upfront and very public about that. Yeah, to your point of is that company being a good steward or not of that data, even if they have the best of intentions, there's still bad actors that are out there ready to exploit the smallest weakness. 

Vinnie 

Yeah, thanks. That's scary. Appreciate it. 

Kevin 

Well, I think there's a degree of what is somebody going to do with that, right? So I mean in those cases it's a lot of identity theft and things like that and you can get protection and anytime a company has one of these breaches, they're providing you free protection for a year from Experian or whoever else to give that to you. Versus, what am I really providing by letting OpenAI have my Chat GPT history right now." Earlier on in the process of them rolling this out, lots of thumbs up and thumbs down made their system very capable. To what degree are they using any of that information now? They're not public about any of that, so you don't know. You have Sam Altman talking about data quality versus data quantity, and we don't need to have an AI system train off of 40 million books. You can have them train off of 5 million books eight times so you know that they're kind of going in a high quality direction. I guarantee you my Chat GPT conversations are not the level of quality that you would be using. 

And they're doing human reviews overall of the data going in at this point. I think that there's the adage around privacy of, "Well, I've got nothing to hide." There's some of that for sure in terms of the usefulness and the value that you would get out and how much you're worried about your data to begin with. 

Vinnie 

It's important to get value, you have to share, but we still need to be aware of how much we're sharing. 

Kevin 

Yeah. 

Vinnie 

Yeah. So we're kind of up on time. So I want to ask you each one question on the way out the door. Carrie, you more from a usability feature function perspective, and Kevin, you more from a technical perspective. Let's say you're a company, an organization, and you're reading this survey and you feel like you are not on the leading edge of this. Maybe you're middle of the pack, maybe you're behind the middle of the pack. What are the first couple of things you should be doing discussing acting upon coming out of this? 

Carrie 

Understand who your customers are, do some research, understand. I know we're talking about this a lot in terms of just data and data-driven consumer questions. Get to understand your customer, understand what they want. Don't put something out there without that being research-backed. Don't put something out as we were saying earlier, that's innovative for the sake of innovation. It has to be what consumers want. It has to enhance their daily life, their experience, and it can't be something that is going to for you be a giant waste of money that you have nothing to back that up with. So that I think would be kind of the first thing is we started this. There's certainly a level deeper that we can go with this for us personally. And actually now that I say that, we actually have an AI-specific study that's out in the field right now so we're going to come out with another research brief about that shortly. But there's so much more I think that companies can do to really understand their customer and really start there with that research. 

Vinnie 

So I agree with that. So I'm going to give a yes and. On the and side, because yes, if you know your customers wants deliver on them. Steve Jobs famously said he didn't like focus groups because people didn't know they wanted an iPhone until he created one, right? People weren't asking for that because they had no clue that that was there. That's where I think true innovation can have a play where you're addressing the meta need, right? 

Carrie 

Yep. 

Vinnie 

That customer need was still there, but it was more meta and then he came up with a new implementation of that. So I think testing and learning on that can be also a track while you're doing exactly what you're talking about. I think those two can run in parallel. 

Kevin 

I don't think his perspective though was to say... A focus group is one way to know your customer. I think he felt like he knew his customer fine without asking. 

Vinnie 

Yeah. In the Steve Jobs biography book, there was a section in there where it's like, "They did not want focus groups because they wanted to create something that people hadn't even conceived of yet." Now to your point, I think from a meta perspective, they knew exactly who their customers were. So I think that's valid. 

Carrie 

I think also just truly understanding the nuances of the problem that they're trying to solve, regardless of what the product itself may be. Forget about that. It's like, "What's a problem that a consumer has on a daily basis and how can I solve for it and then create something innovative around that. 

Kevin 

How can I solve for that with AI too? So people play with this stuff and it's easy to spin up proof of concepts, and it's much more difficult when you start to put something into production and you start to have a of the concerns around what I'm generating and how is this going to be consumed and is it going to be right or not? Yada yada yada, stuff that you don't really have to care about with when you're doing a proof of concept. Yeah, you got to know your customers. You got to know your business. These things are time held things that help you be successful. 

Vinnie 

So on the tech side, what should people be doing right now? 

Kevin 

They should be using it, right? Companies should be actively investing in internal chat tools that can get people really using it if they're not already using Chat GPT, which I think there was a Fortune 500, I think OpenAI said 92% of them have Chat GPT enterprise subscriptions at this point. So this is such a different level of capability through such a simple interface that there is a lot of uncertainty and doubt about what it can even do and a lot of dismissal until you're actually typing stuff in and interacting and understanding, "Oh, this is really truly what's possible." Then I can't look at those business problems and think, "How can I be innovative when I don't know what the gold star version of innovation and technology is capable of?" 

Vinnie 

So I think that's a good answer around making it part of your daily work experience. 

Kevin 

Exactly. 

Vinnie 

Pull it in, find innovative ways to use it yourself, and that starts to unlock some of the art of the possible. 

Kevin 

Yeah, absolutely. And you've got to know, "Here's possible, and then here's how we actually do this." How do you run a project that's AI based that's different than a traditional software development project? How do you go about your designs? You can iterate so much faster that spending six months in a product design cycle to be able to test two ideas, I can just test 10 ideas much faster. If I'm not thinking about how to design, how to manage project, how to do change management over that, what the concerns are from a deployment perspective, which are different, a cost perspective, which is different, then I'm not really going to even understand. Sure, I typed that into Chat GPT, but what does that mean for me as a business? How can I use that? What does it take? 

Vinnie 

Well, thank you both. We're up on time, Carrie and Kevin, I really appreciate your insights and joining us on the podcast today. And for our listeners, this is a two-part series, we're going to have a second podcast released around the same time focused a bit more on the data-driven customer experience, whereas this one was more on innovation and AI, so stay tuned for that as well. Thank you. 

Kevin 

Thanks Vinnie. 

Vinnie 

Appreciation you.  

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